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For general discussions about the Vue product line. Any topic that does not fit in one of the following forums should be posted here.
This topic deals with Vue crashing during rendering, out of memory errors, etc. If anyone has anything to add, please do so and I'll add it to my below summary. I edit this topc from time to time as I become aware of new tips so you may want to check back here from time to time (you don't get an email notification when I edit).
1. Software Versions. Always make sure your software is up to date. The software has been getting more stable with each release, and I expect it will continue to do so.
2. Large Bitmaps. The number one reason for crashes during rendering appears to be bitmap related. Try not to use bitmap materials. If you have to use a bitmap material, try and use a smaller one. This is particularly true for the giant bitmaps you get out of Poser. If need be, reduce a bitmap and reapply it, you should only need a giant bitmap if you're doing an extreme close up.
3. OpenGL. Click the "Clear OpenGL" checkbox before rendering.
4. Saving WIP. Very important. Interupt you render on a regular basis, save your work, exit vue, restart, reload and resume render. You may want to do this once or twice a day if you have an extremely long render. That way, if you crash, you won't loose everything. You don't have to exit Vue for this to work, but it's a good idea to clear the memory out before resuming. Also, keep multiple copies of your WIP file because on rare occassions Vue trashes a files if you continually save over it. In case you haven't made a backup and your file is trashed, Vue keeps a .bak file that is a copy of the previously saved version of a file; if you change the extension of this file to .vue then you've restored it to a previous version - back up this file before you use it because if it crashes again, you will have no further back up to resort to. However, don't rely on the .bak file, it's not foolproof, make your own backup copies on a regular basis. For this to work, you need to ensure you have the .bak file creation enabled or else you might have an unpleasant suprise. In Infinite, go to File/Options, and on the first tab, General Preferences, at the top left section labeled "Load/save options", be certain you've checked the 4th option, "Make backup copies (.bak) when saving scenes".
5. Physical Memory. Might seem a bit obvious, but adding physical memory to your system can't make things any worse. My personal experience suggest that upgrading from 1G -> 2G makes a big difference, but going from 2G - > 4G is only a marginal, if any, improvement.
6. Tile Rendering. This one is thanks to Wabe. Well, not really tile rendering, but a pretty clever idea that looks like it might work. Just follow the link: http://www.petes-oasis.com/tilerendering.html
7. Render Settings. Get the most out of your render settings. Thanks to Marguerite Walters. http://users.tns.net/~mwalter1/Vue_Render_Settings.pdf
8. Poser Figures. Poser figures cause a lot of memory problems, but fortunately there are quite a few tricks you can do to help. Frederic Louguet has a very useful tutorial. Follow the link: http://renderfred.free.fr/fei_tuvinien.html (just click on the 'Making Of' PDF icon).
9. Render to Disk. Sometimes rendering to disk can have less memory demand then rendering to screen. Unfortunately, you can't use network rendering in this case. It pays to try this option in any case.
10. Render by Sections. Thanks to Fromage Bleu. Using the select area to render tool, it is possible for you to do a manual tile render where you render sections of the picture at a time. You then need to use a program like Photoshop to stitch the various renders tiles together. Actually, this is a pretty important tip and I've expanded it in a point below - it's the answer to get Vue to generate very large renders.
11. Screen Capture. Here is a super last resort but I've had to use this at least once. Vue sometimes crashes just after it has finished its render. This tip only works if you're rendering to screen, and if the image is smaller than you overall screen resolution. In this case, it's possible for you to move any dialog that pops up out of the way so that the rendered image is visible. Take a screen dump by pressing the "Print Scrn" button (or ALT + "Print Scrn" to take a copy of the top most dialog), I'm not sure if there's a Mac equivalent. This takes a copy of whatever is being displayed on the screen and puts it in your clipboard. In Photoshop, or some other image editing software, you can now paste from your clipboard, clip the image out, and save it.
12. How to get Vue to render very large bitmaps. As anyone who has tried can tell you, Vue will quickly fill its nappy whenever you try and get it to do a larger render - not only does the time to render become prohibitive, more often than not, it'll just crash with a resource error. However, for V5I/V6I users, this is easily overcome using the "render area" option accessed from the render dialog. From there, you can enter a start co-ord and a width and height. There is also an option to "blow the view out" which renders the selected area to the same size as the overall image (kinda like zooming in on an area), but we don't need to do that so we'll ignore it. Very simply, if you have a large image that you want to render, decide on how many tiles wide and how many tiles high you want to render the image in - for example, you may decide on 2 tiles wide and 2 tiles high meaning that you will render a total of 2 x 2 = 4 tiles for the overall picture. You will then need to stitch these picture together using a 2D bitmap editor like Photoshop. Consider an example where you have an 8000x4000 picture and you decide to render 4 tiles wide and 4 tiles high. Each tile will be 8000 / 4 = 2000 wide and 4000 / 4 = 1000 high. For the first tile, set the start x and y position to 0 and set the width and height to 2000 and 1000 respectively. Now render the tile and save the resultant image. For the next tile, set the start co-ords to x = previous x position + tile width = 0 + 2000 = 2000. Render and save again. The next tile will have x co-ord 2000 + 2000 = 4000... etc, until you get to the 4th tile across. Now, drop down to the next y co-ord, ie, position x = 0, y = 1000 and render. And so on, go across and down and render all 16 tiles. Now stitch them together in a 2D bitmap editor. Hope this waffle makes sense, but if it doesn't, let me know and I will try and clarify.
13. V6's Offline Renderer. Vue6 gives you the option to use an offline renderer rather than the inbuilt one. There are limitations, for example, you can only render to disk using this method, but it will happily render scenes that crash the inbuilt renderer.
14. Lower rez render and interpolate up. Simply render your picture at a lower resolution than you need and use Photoshop or similar to scale up to what you want. There will be soke quality and detail loss, but the results are often acceptable.
Last edited by EVERYPlant on February 25, 2007, edited 8 times in total.
I had written a tutorial a while ago about optimizing Poser figures for use in a Vue scene. It can help to avoid OOMs when doing that kind of scene. It's here : http://renderfred.free.fr/fei_tuvinien.html (just click on the 'Making Of' PDF icon).
What you have so far looks really good. Something I have experienced many times, is that it seems prefferable to render to disk, instead of to screen, when possible (unfortunately, if one is network rendering, then there is no choice but to render to screen). Here is an example: I've had a scene rendering to screen, and just as it's finishing (not sure exactly when, because I haven't been there), Vue will crash - usually a oom error or similar. Now that Vue has crashed, I can not save the rendered image. For the sake of testing, I have then rendered the exact same image with identical settings to disk. Vue will still crash at the end, but it seems that the image was saved and it will be intact. BTW, this example was only about a 4 hour render, but just must have taxed Vue enough to cause a crash.
Stopping renders periodically and saving is a great plan, saves so many headaches.
If a given scene seems either too large for Vue, or at least going to take a very long time to render, I have often tried using the "select render area" tool and render different sections and paste them together in 2D postwork. Of course, this feature doesn't work with render to disk, argh.
Thanks for starting this thread - should be of great help to many of us.
Hi Fromage Bleu, thanks for your contribution, I'll update my list. I guess we all managed to miss the obvious but important tip of rendering to disk. Thanks for reminding us. The rendering by sections and postwork stitching seems like a good way of doing a manual tile render, I'd like to look more into this.
My experience points to this, 2 GB, Raid 0, dedicating all resources to render. Equally important is that the video card has as much on board processing memory as possible. Because it is in the card that the critical image requirements are located. Most importantly seek the highest number of "pixel pipelines" you can get. It is thru this conduit that your image information is shuttled. Imagine a video superhighway flowing with visual information. It is the gridlock of an overload of pixel flow which brings the system to it's knees.
Any system designed for "gamming" will also work well for "rendering" because the video demands made on it are exactly similar. Look to minimally an NVIDIA 6800 GTX video card in single, dual or optimally a quad configuration. This is called SLI . Ideally an NVIDIA 7800 in a quad configuration with 1 terabyte hard drive memory, Raid 0, and Vue 5 I will no longer crash. Render speeds will be lighting fast. Approximate current cost is in the $7000.00 US dollar range.
Last edited by Joe Battle on September 23, 2006, edited 1 time in total.
Well, I will say this just once : the above post from Mr Joe Battle makes no sense. Every experienced 3D user knows that, but newbies perhaps not :
- Raid will not help your rendering needs at all
- The requirement of 3D creation are not at all the same as gaming requirements
- A gaming system could be terrible fo rendering, as the video card is not used at all for rendering in Vue
- A SLI system is useless for Vue (and most 3D creation software as well)
- Vue 5 will crash when it wants to crash, even on monster systems
- $7000.00US makes no sense either.
Therefore I interpret this as a trolling post polluting this otherwise useful thread. End of story.
I am very disappointed that you have interpreted my comment in this manner Mr. Frederic Louguet. I am a serious Vue 5 I user as anyone in the 3D community can tell you. Sometimes when we are given an overload of new information that is difficult to process we tend to react with a negative knee jerk reaction. All the factors I mentioned are those which I personally have found to be of great service in my ongoing exploration of the vast potential of Vue 5 Infinite. I will not defend all the points in my original comment. I sense that might be a waste of time at this point. I even considered not replying to your remarks at all. But I have simply to say this. However you have interpreted them my comments were intended in the most genuine fashion to share my own personal experience and knowledge on this subject of Vue crashing. I am, first and foremost, on a continuing journey to teach myself the mysteries of Vue 5 I. And to use this excellent software to create the best images I can. I regret that Mr. Frederic Louguet has had this very strong negative reaction to my input. I am but a humble artist endeavoring to evolve in my craft. I wish you all success. I will not post again in this thread or respond to any replies. I do not wish to upset any of you again. Peace! Joe Battle
Last edited by Joe Battle on September 23, 2006, edited 1 time in total.
My friends - cool down.
Discussing issues with a very personal pov is part of the fun of forums like that. Attacking people personally is not.
So please, nobody is a troll here in this thread, we simply have different experiences and positions.
Let me say it directly. If this does not go back to a technical discussion as the intention was from that - in fact the idea from Realms was a collection of issues that help others - then i think i block the whole thing. Or simply delete it. This are the good things about being a moderator here. Zack!